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Hunt/Track + pkill system chat

This is a breakout of the chat session that Adepali set up in the middle of the night. Not pk logs, but everyone should have some idea of the discussion.

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C:\Users\mforesto\Downloads\chat.txt

00103: [Babayaga: I think only issue was with low level hunters, unknowns, being able to skill it to a respectable level and abuse its powers]

00120: [Pojo: every fucking class but thief warrior mage (mage rightly so) has a way to regen hp quickly]

00199: [Ziyi: the hunt/track change was not beneficial for anyone]

00279: [Slunyavchik: i think just increasing range some for hunt would be ok]

00353: [Tyto: sleep for 3 tics you regen fast on thief and warrior]

00370: [Schot: I think hunt RANGE should be buffer. But lag passive. ]

00449: [Pojo: the hunt/track change benefitted teh randommers]

00513: [Pojo: by making them harder to track down and get back]

00569: [someone: hunt/track are too lame now imo]

00596: [Kevin: all the changes do right now is encourage the type of PK that the gods claim to dislike]

00604: [Fyre: IMHO, the hunt change was primarily a balance vs track, and long overdue.]

00681: [Dralan: volley was pretty powerful made area casters look like a joke sometimes :)]

00696: [Kevin: ie, randomly rolling into a recup/zone and jumping whoever happpens to be there and hiding]

00700: [Pojo: it's already hard enough to find someone without clair]

00708: [Jumble: hey, having randomers is good, it keeps people on their toes.]

00716: [someone: and track is utter garbage.]

00804: [someone: agree pojo]

00822: [Kevin: and discourages the clan hunting clan PK that everyone claims is good]

00838: [Jumble: its trash you should worry about]

00870: [Kevin: i dont disagreej umble]

01016: [Kevin: but if trash can hit you and then vanish easily ]

01144: [Kevin: without any real knoweldge/skill at hiding]

01148: [Pojo: thats the problem]

01243: [Pojo: you just run around really fast]

01301: [Kevin: is that somehow better than randomers who have to learn to be good]

01362: [Kevin: in order to survive retalation?]

01418: [Pojo: part of the problem is that every druid has mass refresh]

01422: [Dralan: casters need legend rank to hit more with area why should volley be diffrent?]

01474: [Pojo: and shamans have refresh]

01538: [Pojo: and scouts all have a way to refresh]

01584: [Pojo: running is WAY too easy now]

01612: [Pojo: and hunting is WAY too hard]

01616: [Slunyavchik: hunt is a skill of defense, it makes you able to zone with enemy being on]

01624: [Ziyi: legendary skies need +volley yeah :)]

01648: [Pojo: you've got 3 classes that can refresh, why?]

01706: [Pojo: all it does it make randomming easier because they can run FOREVER]

01710: [Onysablet: pojo shut the fuck up]

01735: [Pojo: there's NO cooldown on the scout refreshes]

01775: [Risk: remove passive dodge from thieves]

01832: [Ziyi: nochat for onysablet!]

01903: [Davn: hehe passive dodge is fine]

01907: [Sawyer: no way]

01948: [Davn: thieves suck anyway]

01982: [Risk: :P]

02012: [Onysablet: sorry :)]

02020: [Adepali: please...]

02028: [Adepali: ok]

02037: [Sawyer: lol till one stabs u]

02053: [Adepali: the 2nd thing is pk system. i feel everybody hates it.]

02061: [Risk: hunt is fine i think]

02077: [Schot: Put a long cooldown timer on Hunt. Might fix some of the issues.]

02090: [Ziyi: who is everybody ?]

02098: [Pojo: yeah its crap. red-handed is stupid and bloody items are stupid :p]

02118: [Adepali: everybody who posts on the forum or expressed any kind of opinion :)]

02125: [Tween: everybody is the people that dont like losing]

02206: [Ziyi: everybody = people that lost?]

02254: [Pojo: everybody = people that are trying to have good fights]

02325: [Schot: I dont think flag system is so bad]

02378: [Pojo: everybody = people that hate randomers]

02423: [Vithan: good fights are when you win]

02451: [Davn: how is the flag system preventing good fights? :o]

02488: [Ziyi: you hate randomers, you go play no-pk muds]

02493: [Vithan: unless this is something other than a war game]

02527: [Ziyi: you will be very happy there Pojo]

02531: [Kevin: good fights are just fights where you think you've got a chance of winning]

02647: [Pojo: who is this invis that's shittalking me, shut up]

02681: [Davn: well yeah, but adepali was talking about pk system]

02710: [Kevin: even if you lose its fun unless you look at the fight, and think winning/losing was af orgone conclusion]

02827: [Risk: what were we talking bout again?]

02849: [Vithan: sometimes you don't know that till after]

02864: [Slunyavchik: imho current flag system never been tested its full force yet ]

02893: [Tween: first you need to decide if this is a pk mud or not. do you want to help zoning clans continue to zone and avoid wars or not?]

02902: [Pojo: the pk system is moot to the problem of being unable to retaliate]

03017: [Davn: zoning clans can swap mud or quit for all i care!]

03045: [Pojo: which is partially due to the temp path/teleport/hunt/track nerf, and giving 5 classes refresh and making mass refresh an easy load]

03059: [Ziyi: exactly]

03067: [Schot: im not very sure the point of bloody items really. if not transferring eq from pk.]

03182: [Vithan: only avoid whining by chaning the underlying beauty of arctic]

03186: [Pojo: the 'pk system' as it is includes class design and game balance as a whole, not just some red-handed flags]

03216: [Fyre: And Dawn, it's that type of attitude which has taken this mud from 250 online during the week to 80 max on the weekend.]

03221: [Vithan: no level limit items, no restricts on pk]

03257: [Vithan: you can surprise people]

03261: [Davn: bullshit]

03266: [Vithan: get lucky, etc]

03270: [Bro: Problem is all the people bitching about pk force it out of existence then quit when they out play their opponents so our playbase drops in increments of 25]

03279: [Vithan: that's the fun]

03288: [Tadon: just put paladin quests in and all is forgiven!]

03292: [Davn: i never quit even i was randomed 3 times a day]

03318: [Bro: Don't have a solution but that is the problem imo]

03426: [Orusen: those were the days]

03444: [Adepali: what were the days?]

03457: [Haduken: bring back bountys!]

03461: [Ziyi: solution is to let anti-pk whiners leave the game by ignoring them, and you wont even have problems left.]

03469: [Slunyavchik: people who scared of randomers/trash chars are scared of any pk generally]

03473: [Orusen: being pked multiple times a day :P]

03477: [Bro: when players weren't assholes to each other constantly]

03509: [Haduken: yeah]

03513: [Davn: hah, agree ziyi]

03604: [Adepali: fortunately i do not :P]

03613: [Vithan: there was never a time players weren't assholes to someone]

03622: [Sawyer: everyone hates eachother]

03651: [Orusen: bit of sarcasm but silly nonetheless]

03677: [Pojo: palyers were always assholes, i started in 5th wipe and 5 minutes after i made my first character i was killed]

03692: [Tyto: haha i only got pked multiple time when Phaze would go on random sprees]

03722: [Davn: come on, we're always had a patrick]

03734: [Bro: being killed does not equal asshole]

03756: [Bro: nothing wrong with pk by nature]

03821: [Slunyavchik: put more rewards for pkill, and hurt trashes by code would be best solve]

03838: [Haduken: geting charmed at tarsis square and forced to withdraw/drop all you coins was fun!]

03860: [Vithan: is it random, or just using a tactic]

03895: [Pojo: anyway point is, make it harder to run]

03975: [Sawyer: lol yea]

04000: [Pojo: when its ahrder to run randoming will happen less]

04013: [Schot: no thats not very good idea]

04066: [Tyto: i have played since 93 been randomed every wipe i have played......how come there never seemed to be a problem with pk system back with the shriners]

04084: [Pojo: pk will balance out fine]

04206: [Fyre: Because the shriners all sat in the same lab and abused the pk system, Tyto]

04214: [Davn: exactly tyto]

04218: [Adepali: who said there was never a problem. i was deleted multiple times for abusing that system]

04222: [Fyre: They didn't care, they were winning]

04226: [Sawyer: tarsis shriners were the shit]

04239: [Ziyi: pojo is contributing zero ideas]

04315: [Vithan: this idea that you can't pk people unless you have matching gear is the problem - if you want that in mud, have to set up brackets]

04349: [Vithan: and that will ruin it]

04389: [Tyto: no one bitched near as much back then]

04399: [Pojo: i'm contributting more ideas than you]

04524: [Pojo: you're just saying i'm not saying anything, that's really a waste of time]

04533: [Adepali: no one bitched because if you bitched you got deleted]

04608: [Grumpelnort: exactly]

04617: [Tween: remove all peace rooms and have all agressive actions spawn a kalidon]

04655: [Sawyer: give thieves bash lol]

04667: [Schot: Running isnt the problem. 6 druids can refresh just fine]

04676: [Ziyi: exactly]

04727: [Jumble: i think trash is defined well. random pk is ok. pk seems to be working well...i dont see the point of bloody but whatever]

04776: [Ziyi: why did those druids get deleted instead of those whined to imms?]

04788: [Schot: and actually scouts make it tolerable to zone without a druid in the group]

04802: [Vithan: i don't think trash is defined well]

04806: [Tyto: well this has always been a pk mud and i understand the trash issue but come on]

04896: [Adepali: the only point of bloody was to prevent eq transfer. it sucks? we will remove it. i have no strong feelings either way]

04990: [Tyto: make certain spells harder to get........the idea of mages having to be with group was good]

04998: [Pojo: it doesnt though]

05079: [Pojo: you can still stuff bloody loot in a chest]

05112: [Jumble: i just dont see it stopping eq transfer]

05123: [Schot: I think opt no_bloody and opt refuse bloody negate this bloody flag huh?]

05148: [Adepali: also 'back then' high gods were creating pk characters and killing the trash and randomers]

05168: [Vithan: i'm in favor of bloody/keeping loot on chars for a time, like 2 days]

05198: [Adepali: in the days of 'no intervention']

05221: [Vithan: then tehre should be no rules]

05247: [Vithan: if you trans gear and it gets located, you may die]

05255: [Pojo: whats wrong with doing that now]

05268: [Jumble: yeah, that was them killing me, i remember well]

05301: [Slunyavchik: see, zoners thinking of the ways to hurt pk rewards even more]

05311: [Schot: Having to keep gear on your char from pk for 2 days is kinda extream.]

05324: [Ziyi: In the days of no intervention = 200+ players in who list]

05352: [Adepali: now we have like 5 active imms and they are all busy working]

05360: [Tadon: if u get pk'd just talk to mavlad and he will give u solace!]

05375: [Pojo: if morgion wants to give kobra a 300 hp stab to kill trash]

05398: [Ziyi: today.. too much causes playerbase under 60]

05418: [Dralan: back in the shriners days pk was crazy :)]

05534: [Kevin: i dont think anyone wants you to keep gear on the guy who killed in PK, even if its anti his class]

05538: [Onysablet: you are trying to blame the lack of players on the changes?]

05573: [Pojo: so make that a function of level 31s]

05591: [Onysablet: try ancient technology ]

05679: [Ziyi: your on ancient technology still!]

05687: [Pojo: ancient technology? aardwolf has 500 online]

05708: [Onysablet: +wow and other mmos]

05721: [Tadon: what lack of players I was on earlier and was over 80]

05725: [Kevin: i think people just dislike crap where, for example]

05785: [Vithan: wow i'm 36 and can almost keep up with chat while quali]

05793: [Adepali: please listen]

05797: [Dralan: i remeber like was huge pkills a lot back then now so little of it]

05805: [Kevin: Wilds make some trash randoming clan]

05809: [Schot: Just remove bloody flags. They seem rather useless other then to see who has some of ur gear. But if you die you should already know who has it.]

05844: [Adepali: these days NEVER EXISTED]

05848: [Pojo: the mud genre is not dead]

05852: [Slunyavchik: pk rewards needs to be _bigger_, not worse, right now pk is for fun only, and trashes gets mostly of fun]

05885: [Kevin: and have it solely funnel gear to tagged wilds without anyone knowing the connection between the two]

05898: [Adepali: in the days of 'no intervention' it was not very uncommon to delete entire clans]

05906: [Adepali: for breaking the rules]

05966: [Dralan: it was yes]

05987: [Tyto: true]

05991: [Pojo: give heros police characters]

06000: [Kevin: well the problem is, PK rewards are good]

06004: [Fyre: Yep, I knew guys in the Mystic Harpers]

06009: [Pojo: let THEM kill the trash]

06013: [Tyto: but Cale was a douche]

06107: [Kevin: if you're naked trash attacking a geared clan]

06140: [Pojo: cale fucking ruined this mud]

06175: [Dralan: i remeber when my old clan was deleted cabal clan :)]

06217: [Reinn: Arent PK rewards the chance to keep the gear on the person you PK?]

06292: [Pojo: the player base dropped by HALF after cale took over]

06296: [Adepali: you may smile now but i'm sure you didn't smile back then]

06300: [Bugg: 2 much spam]

06407: [Adepali: you are reigned by your nostalgia and imagine fictionary things!]

06424: [Vithan: i don't think it's wrong for trash to gear up on a clan]

06489: [Tyto: why not make pk system itself simple and make spells that abuse pk harder to get]

06546: [Vithan: clans with gear need to be afraid of that]

06559: [Fyre: I absolutely disagree, Vithan]

06609: [Dralan: what spells abuse pkills?]

06622: [Bro: o such thing as harder to get spells, everything is obtainable for pk]

06682: [Dralan: do you want to make casters useless for pk i don't understand?]

06686: [Kevin: i never said it w as wrong]

06698: [Pojo: the problem is 6 level 24 trash druids can kill any character in 2 rounds, and then you can't hunt them down to get your gear back]

06703: [Vithan: are we gonne live with all these greay areas for trash or have an open pk mud]

06707: [Davn: now you make it sound like wow..]

06711: [Kevin: simply pointing out that its bullshit to say that PK has no rewards]

06724: [Vithan: with all gray areas no one is happy]

06749: [Tyto: well people seem to be bitching about mass refresh being to easy ]

06779: [Davn: pk has all the rewards in the world]

06812: [Kevin: PK has no rewards for the clans fighting off trash]

06816: [Onysablet: move icestorm back to same slot as tornado]

06885: [Dralan: mages are nerfed so hard atm :( and sheafs to]

06889: [Onysablet: and mass ref]

06903: [Kevin: other than being able to keep their gear and taking 3M exp off anyone they kill]

06912: [Adepali: i dont think there's a gray area really]

06970: [Kevin: and of cours ethe fun]

06974: [Pojo: mass refresh doesnt share the ice storm slot any more? wtf]

07067: [Slunyavchik: grey area spreaded too big, everyone can be called trash now]

07079: [Tyto: it does]

07103: [Ziyi: pojo from stone age]

07107: [Adepali: it does]

07133: [Pojo: ok then]

07156: [Dralan: yet everyones wants them nerfed more i dont understand it :)]

07360: [Slunyavchik: i don't care for eq if i lose it = i trash?]

07401: [Pojo: i retiterate: the problem is it's too easy to make a shit group and then run until your flags are all gone]

07502: [Vithan: the best eq'd clan will just think everyone else is trash]

07506: [Adepali: we don't try to guess your inner thoughts slunyavchik]

07575: [Pojo: how about making mem times/move regen 2x when you've made aggressive action]

07755: [Adepali: i'm in the worst eq's clan and i still have a very clear idea of who is trash vithan :)]

07759: [Schot: What in the world would You make it hard to run?]

07798: [Pojo: something like that, something to make it harder to run when you're the instigator]

07838: [Tyto: i agree with the opinions posted about people to afraid to lose eq]

08012: [Pojo: only make it hard to run if you're the one that does the attacking]

08025: [Tyto: that is why there is so much bitching going on about pk and trash]

08034: [Vithan: is trash no spells or no eq, or a combination of the two?]

08055: [Pojo: the victim? no penalty]

08142: [Pojo: the flags are in place for that kind of thing]

08319: [Adepali: vithan just read help trash. it covers i]

08459: [Vithan: ok after platty]

08467: [Kevin: its funny, people always say that only guys who worry too much about losing gear in PK are the ones complaining about trash]

08482: [Slunyavchik: if trash been biggest problem of mud why none coders concentrate on coding to hurt them more, it's always being left to human judgement]

08510: [Pojo: trash can kill geared characters. You'll never stop that.]

08560: [Sawyer: trash thieves r the shit lol]

08654: [Pojo: the thing then is to make it easier to get your gear back from the trash]

08702: [Kevin: and forget that the point is that trash is the exact same way]

08748: [Adepali: because we can't come up with a way to automate that. you're welcome to offer suggestions]

08825: [Slunyavchik: make them lose more exp, after every next death being flagged ]

08830: [Vithan: is there a way to flag your clan as nolonger trash but looking for eq if you quit/vacation for a while?]

08873: [Fyre: Code can be circumvented, Mavlad... once you know the threshold, it will be abused. Human oversight allows judgement to be applied.]

08885: [Slunyavchik: people who pk w/o exping back will hurt]

08913: [Slunyavchik: autodelete if losing 3 level]

08917: [Fyre: Therefore, human oversight will always be better than code for this job ]

08925: [Kevin: fyre is right about that but mavlad makes a good point too, human oversight can be biased]

08938: [Kevin: or at the very least flawed]

08968: [Dralan: good idea slun]

08987: [Pojo: problem is you can kill someone, take their gear, and then just run until your flags wear off and rent]

09005: [Schot: No there is nothing wrong with that]

09013: [Pojo: impunity]

09025: [Schot: hunt]

09029: [Tadon: isn't that the point]

09037: [Kevin: nothing wrong with that pojo]

09041: [Orusen: heh and run they do]

09045: [Adepali: that's why imms should not do anything on borderline cases]

09054: [Bro: great idea except if you keep your opponent offline and don't allow them to xp their screwed even worse then before]

09058: [Ziyi: then u kill someone else to get the eq back]

09062: [Adepali: and as far as i know they do not]

09071: [Pojo: uhh]

09083: [Pojo: what are you bitching about then]

09087: [Kevin: in fact the idea is so long as you survive flags, which requires in theory some skill]

09101: [Kevin: they can log]

09105: [Pojo: whats the problem with trash?]

09109: [Adepali: i dont think there was anything borderline in the case 2 days ago though. it was plain and obvious to all]

09117: [Kevin: the only problem some people have with trash]

09136: [Pojo: if you're ok with me killing your geared chat with trash and getting away with it and you can't do anything about it]

09144: [Kevin: is that some extreme cases are bad in theory]

09156: [Adepali: i have to go now, i'll think about all this, thank you]

09160: [Kevin: well i can hunt you down again]

09164: [** SYSTEM: Congrats to our first legendary character :) **]

09499: [GHer 31] Bro, On a Boat

09500: [Ret 31] Bakr Elder of the Verbena

09501: [Ret 31] Bugg the Male Insect

09502: [Hero 31] Grumpelnort the Male Goblin