Kyro R.I.P.
29 Hasted thief vs a tank with 305 hps
305H 123V 4645076X 182C Exits:NESW> bash kyro You crash into Kyro in a bone crunching bash, sending him sprawling to the ground. 305H 123V 4645076X 182C [Tremor:Fair] [Kyro:Fair] Exits:NESW> A knight of the sword looks at Kyro and yells 'There's the scoundrel!' 305H 123V 4645076X 182C [Tremor:Fair] [Kyro:Fair] Exits:NESW> A knight of the sword massacres Kyro with his slash. You crush Kyro very hard. Kyro pierces YOU extremely hard. Kyro pierces YOU very hard. Kyro pierces YOU extremely hard. 260H 123V 4645076X 182C [Tremor:Bad] [Kyro:Fair] Exits:NESW> Kyro stands up. 260H 123V 4645076X 182C Exits:NESW> Kyro flies in from the north. Kyro lunges at you with a thin black sword, but you easily avoid his attempt to backstab you. 260H 123V 4645076X 182C [Tremor:Bad] [Kyro:Fair] Exits:NESW> bash kyro Kyro misses you with his pierce. Kyro pierces YOU very hard. Kyro pierces YOU extremely hard. You crush Kyro very hard. 230H 123V 4645076X 182C [Tremor:Bad] [Kyro:Fair] Exits:NESW> 230H 123V 4645076X 182C [Tremor:Bad] [Kyro:Fair] Exits:NESW> A knight of the sword looks at Kyro and yells 'There's the scoundrel!' 230H 123V 4645076X 182C [Tremor:Bad] [Kyro:Fair] Exits:NESW> bash Kyro Kyro flies in from the north. You crash into Kyro in a bone crunching bash, sending him sprawling to the ground. 230H 123V 4645076X 182C [Tremor:Bad] [Kyro:Fair] Exits:NESW> You crush Kyro very hard. Kyro pierces YOU extremely hard. Kyro pierces YOU very hard. 202H 123V 4645076X 182C [Tremor:V.Bad] [Kyro:Fair] Exits:NESW> A knight of the sword looks at Kyro and yells 'There's the scoundrel!' A knight of the sword massacres Kyro with his slash. A knight of the sword massacres Kyro with his slash. You crush Kyro very hard. Kyro massacres YOU with his pierce. Kyro pierces YOU extremely hard. Kyro pierces YOU very hard. 148H 123V 4645076X 182C [Tremor:V.Bad] [Kyro:V.Bad] Exits:NESW> bash Kyro Kyro stands up. You crash into Kyro in a bone crunching bash, sending him sprawling to the ground. 148H 123V 4645076X 182C [Tremor:V.Bad] [Kyro:V.Bad] Exits:NESW> A knight of the sword massacres Kyro with his slash. A knight of the sword massacres Kyro with his slash. You crush Kyro hard. Kyro pierces YOU very hard. Kyro pierces YOU extremely hard. Kyro pierces YOU extremely hard. You wish your wounds would stop BLEEDING so much! 102H 123V 4645076X 182C [Tremor:Awful] [Kyro:Awful] Exits:NESW> A knight of the sword looks at Kyro and yells 'There's the scoundrel!' 102H 123V 4645076X 182C [Tremor:Awful] [Kyro:Awful] Exits:NESW> A knight of the sword massacres Kyro with his slash. A knight of the sword massacres Kyro with his slash. Kyro is mortally wounded, and will die soon, if not aided. You massacre Kyro with your crush. get pile corpse exa corpse You receive 0 experience. Kyro is dead! R.I.P. The death cry of Kyro echoes from somewhere nearby... Kyro sinks gently to the ground.
39 comments
Are you an idiot?
29 hasted thief vs. 305hp basher + 2x massacring knight
At full healthy, it's not likely that thief had too much more than you did.
<used in primary hand> a large flanged mace
I must not understand that he was hasted, despite that you said so, despite it was blatantly obvious in the log? Right.
My point was simple. It was like you were trying to take complete credit for the kill, when this kind knight delivered 80% of the actual damage to your enemy.
This is the point that seems to be far over your head.
You may have well pk'ed a level 30 with a level 1 + 30 hasted animated cityguard corpses... then smuglingly say "Hey, I'm so awesome I pked a level 30 with a level 1 with MY OWN BARE HANDS!", when the fact is, you as the player barely did anything.
Except, that you didn't. You did 20% of 'it'.
The knight did the other 80%.
If you want to take credit for your 20% of the actual pk, fine.. but don't take the glory from that knight like a stupid fucking moron.
They have feelings too.
Your dumbassness reminds me of the level of feroz or dravin.
And considering tremor is saint aligned, I wouldn't be suprised if you were dravin.
Are you drunk, or just plain stupid?
If it wasn't for that knight, you had no chance.
Therefore it wasn't YOU who won the battle.
When someone reads your log description and sees "29 hasted thief vs. 305hp basher", they're going to think "Wow this guy is good, if he can pull that off!". But then they read the log, and they're like "Bah, he barely did anything.. the knight did all the work..". It's not nearly as impressive... at best this is false advertisement.
Do you even remotely understand what I'm saying?
Again, tremor is totally oblivious to the point...
Are you drunk, or just plain stupid?
If it wasn't for that knight, you had no chance.
Therefore it wasn't YOU who won the battle.
When someone reads your log description and sees "29 hasted thief vs. 305hp basher", they're going to think "Wow this guy is good, if he can pull that off!". But then they read the log, and they're like "Bah, he barely did anything.. the knight did all the work..". It's not nearly as impressive... at best this is false advertisement.
Do you even remotely understand what I'm saying?
Message edited by Rurh 2005-09-6 03:34:42.
Posted: 2005-09-06 03:31:58
On the flip side, he should get some credit, the knight wouldn't have killed him if it wasn't for tremor.
AdamG
Mainly you're having a phantom argument with me.
I'm not debating whether it was good or bad for you to have that kind knight at your side. I'm not debating whether you could have killed him without it's help or not.
What's I'm saying is that you can't claim 100% credit.
If that knight was another player you were grouped with, you certainly wouldn't take all the credit.
It's just here your companion was controlled by an electronic computer as opposed to an organic one.
(I cant believe I'm having this debate, but I need to get my fix)
If it wasn't for the knight, he wouldn't have killed the thief. The knight has some of the credit.
A keystone doesn't make an entire bridge.
It's a relatively simple situation.
If it wasn't for Tremor, the kill wouldn't have been made.
If it wasn' for the knight, the kill wouldn't have been made.
That's no where near 100% credit, on either side.
The fact that it was a knight, and not a player, is the irrelevant part.
If the knight was absorbed into Tremor (meaning tremor was doing 2x+ massacres a round, aka a good prim), then it'd still be false advertisement. Stating that he was 305hp when the fight began was a weak attempt to show how elite he was. If he failed to mentioned he was all stoneskinned/iceshieled/fireshielded/globed/steelskinned, then it'd be omitting an important detail (which, oddly he gave for the thief [haste] on the opposing side).
If he had just said thief vs. basher, then that wouldn't be false. But he revealed the strengths of his enemy, without revealing his own strengths, sounding like he's more powerful than he really is.
"29 hasted thief vs. 305 hp basher" is now here NEAR the same thing as "29 hasted thief vs. 305 hp basher + 2x massacring knight"
The knight gets at least half the credit.
If bob is one of the 10 attackers...and if he doesn't attack like the others... the kill isn't made.
Bob could make/break the situation.
That doesn't mean, that if the kill is made, it's 100% bob's credit.
There were 9 other people in the same situation.
Except here, it was 2 people.. one electronic idiot.. and a biological idiot... neither of which would have made the kill on their own.
And, the idea that an important section of a whole consitutes the whole.
...neither of which are valid.
It would have been him helping with a kill. And that's it.
The only way something doesn't get credit, is if that something had no bearing on whether the fight was won or not.
The description should be changed to "29 hasted thief vs a huma-bearing tank with 305hp"
Then you'd be on target with the innuendo as to who's better.
Then people would be like "Well duh, of course the basher won.. instead of the other way around"
how's the bait taste?
Actually you didn't say anything new compared to Tremor, who I've been debating with since the start.
It was hardly 'bait'
The tool argument has already been refuted.
Apparently this needs to be repeated.
Tremor alone was not able to defeat him. Tremor + Knight was. Therefore the Tremor cannot claim the credit all by himself if he didn't do it by himself.
The topic "29 Hasted thief vs a tank with 305 hps " is suggesting that Tremor is so awesome that even at only 305hps, he won against a 29 hasted thief. He left out an important detail, which was the ability to deal out massive damage in addition to bashing, which severely reduces his awesomeness. This point was conveniently left out.
1) He gave credit to thief's haste.
2) He failed to give credit to his damage dealing (mob, tool, or otherwise).
3) If he didn't give credit to the haste, people would have said "Woah, he won agaisnt a thief AND the thief was hasted"
4) He didn't give credit to his damage dealing, so people will says "Hey wait a second, he left that part out.. he really sucks!"
1 and 2 are attempts to skew people into thinking he's better than he is. His tactics make up some percentage of the credit to the kill. His player's hitpoints (however few there were) make up a certain percentage of the credit for the kill. The other 70-80% of the credit, to which he couldn't do himself, but needed a cityguard to come to his rescue, he tries to claim as his own awesomeness.
That's where the reasoning fails.
He had 1hp left when you fragged him.
His death was not 100% you.
At best, your actions were "Finishing off" or "Resulting in" the death.
.. not "All I killed him all by myself"... which is what Tremor is trying to do to a lesser degree.
"Recognition or approval for an act, ability, or quality: gave them credit for a job well done. " (dictionary.com).
-The applicable one
You aren't in there physically fighting in the game. At best you're directing the events and actions of an in-game character, or team of mobiles and/or other players.
You can take "a lot" of credit for a success as the commander of your resources..
But if the CEO of a company says "make me a castle", and the laborers do so... the CEO can not take credit for making the castle... the laborers did.. he can only take credit for the leadership towards it.
Similarily, the only part Tremor can take credit for is his tactic with the knight, bash, versus a hasted thief.
If anything, Tremors success is partially credited to Kyro's sticking around, sticking to his guns.
If it wasn't for that, there wouldn't have been a kill.
Are you going to take credit for Kyro's decision to stay and fight, despite the fact it's not a MOB?
Or did you have some sort of extra-sensory manipulation with his brain to keep him there?
If he was clanned, and his clan loaded him a 50d1 prim to use... and gave it to him..
1) He wouldn't have been able to make the kill without that 50d1 [no knight this time]
Does he get all the credit for the kill?
Hell no.
His clan, while he was asleep, spent 3 hours doing a zone, had 13 deaths, etc.. to load the sword, which was given to Tremor.
They get no credit? They had no direct involvement with the fight, yet they must be given credit for loading and giving the weapon to the guy so he could actually make his kill.
No.. the ONLY way you can take 100% credit for a kill, is if you walk into a room, place your index and middle fingers to your forehead, think the word 'paralyze', paralysing the victim (not a spell, just sheer inate mental power), and he stood there and punch the guy to death with his bare hands.
The only thing Tremor can do is take "some credit" for taking advantage of a situation which "resulted in" Kyro's death.
That's fucking it.
"are you trying to say it claims credit for being used like a weapon in killing a player?"
Yes, and I've already explained why.
If Tremor was a level 1 mage and came across a level 30 warrior who was fighting a mob at 1hp, and he magic-missiled him... he doesn't kill him, he kills him off.
Tremor also had no real control over the knight. At best he was taking advantage of a situation.
Is that how you use tools? Stand around a workshop until a hammer falls off a shelf and dive underneath it with your birdhouse-in-construction, hoping the hammer falls on the particular nail?
Tools suggest you have active control over something. He didn't.
He was taking advantage of the situation that a lot of hammers were falling off that shelf.
A situation only has 100% credit to disperse. Giving Kyro 'discredit' is the same as kyro giving credit for Tremor's victory.
Try to put this through your thick skull.
Kyro discredit towards his defeat = Kyro's credit towards Tremor's victory.
if Kyro was held the entire time, had no ability to flee, then he's not credited for his death (unless he was wearing massive +saves). The pure fact is, he decided, of his own free will, to stay. If it wasn't for this, he wouldn't have died. How does this fact, which is as important, or moreso, than the fact Tremor was bashing, or the knight was hitting, not get credit?
It only doesn't get credit if it had no influence. It had influence, so it gets credit. Therefore Tremor cannot claim 100% credit for the kill. It's that simple.
"Wake up imbecile. "
Your stupid.
Wow, that was easy.
Or are your trying to say that I'm smart and you're stupid?
And I'm not suprised to see Matthew arguing with me on something completely retarded, utilizing retarded points which I clearly refute but that doesn't seem to phaze him.
" should be surprised that he isn't saying knights are too powerful and should be nerfed!"
Some do. The kapak/captain in Balifor are hideously abused, using the current flag system.
We've already suggested that they don't assist in pk.
1. standing by a guard is as predictable as cutting the brakes on someone's car
1a. don't limit the definition of "tool" to those metal things one buys at a hardware store. Try "4. Something used in the performance of an operation; an instrument" on for size.
2. there's no assurance that the person you're targetting will die in either scenario
3. you don't have active control over the car or the knight, but you are certainly 100% responsible for the death.
4. don't make the mistake of thinking the knight is any less inanimate than the car. They are both machines with inputs and outputs that one can control.
Unrelated: One of the most important traits in good writing is the ability to be concise. Posting 3 times to each single response makes you look like an airhead, and certainly does not comprise a clear refutation.
EDIT: spehlyng